Soprani.ca General Discussion

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  • Gnafu the Great
    _
    Or better than a phone ;-).
  • singpolyma
    Indeed. I solve this by having my phone permanently out of RAM so all apps get OOM'd when the screen is off
  • that way I never have to worry about it ringing
  • Gnafu the Great
    _
    And then someday: Snikket SDK.
  • I'm interested to try Cheogram on Waydroid on Fedora on OP6.
  • What I love about this community is the variety of solutions.
  • moparisthebest
    > I'm interested to try Cheogram on Waydroid on Fedora on OP6.
    Sorry to burst your bubble but also very ungood :'(
  • singpolyma
    yeah, once you need waydroid things get meh I'm sure. Honestly Cheogram is the only app I run 99% of the time so I can kind of ignore android on my current potato device
  • Root
    Cheogram worked well on Debian with waydroid when I tried it.
  • moparisthebest
    > that way I never have to worry about it ringing
    Yea... The one time my wife got into a car accident, another car hit her, and my phone didn't ring 💀 don't want a repeat of that
  • Root: on a real computer not a phone presumably? :P
  • Root
    moparisthebest: correct
  • Waydroid itself gave me other issies though, so I quickly switched...
  • moparisthebest
    Yea waydroid works fine on real computers running Arch for me too :'(
  • Root
    Ah, so it has mobile issues not yet solved.
  • qy
    did something about the bubbles change?
  • am i losing my mind
  • something looks different but i dont know what
  • Mike
    The tails is back
  • And spacing on sent messages is fixed
  • moparisthebest
    What's a bubble? (I hope pure black AMOLED is still an option 😬)
  • Root
    moparisthebest: its that thing that is fun to pop on others.
  • * moparisthebest: its that thing that is fun to burst on others.
  • amanitab
    _
    Can I use an Esim for a cars iOS, like Subaru's??
  • * Can I use an Esim for a cars OS, like Subaru's??
  • moparisthebest
    should be able to...
  • I personally wouldn't recommend ever connecting your car to the internet but you do you...
  • amanitab
    _
    Heard, would appreciate a FOSS future... Trying to find a balance n semi private way n thought jmp would help
  • ossguy
    _
    JMP can help with some things, but not everything
  • moparisthebest
    the JMP esim is great but it doesn't really supply any privacy
  • TheOtherMike
    _
    Some warning: I've had two cars (a Toyota and a Volkswagen) with "telematics" (the cellular connection), and both used embedded SIMs that were carrier-locked and required specialized, manufacturer-specific equipment to change the SIM. At this point, I mostly prefer to just disconnect the telematics module to prevent it from sending invasive data back to the manufacturer. Though, the Volkswagen turns on the "check engine" light when you do that.
  • moparisthebest
    yea imho you should always disconnect those if you can't get cars without them, see https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/cars/ (it's not good)
  • amanitab
    _
    Are there a known ways to disconnect not voiding warranty or anything.
  • jackhill
    Pull fuse if you're lucky. I've seen dummy antennae kits online as another option
  • Gnafu the Great
    _
    It depends on the vehicle.
  • Bolt has the options jackhill mentioned.
  • moparisthebest
    I've heard fords are as simple as pulling a fuse, don't know though, my go-to so far is only owning vehicles old enough to not have radios
  • amanitab
    _
    Any info or suggestions are def appreciated.
  • ossguy
    _
    amanitab: which model/year of Subaru?
  • amanitab
    _
    * 24
  • moparisthebest
    maybe https://www.subaruxvforum.com/threads/disabling-starlink.186712/
  • jackhill
    do they really call it starlink‽ I guess it's important to get those jucy data even when out of cell coverage 😜️
  • Root
    I have a caravan, and have yet to find info on how to disable that.
  • I can pull a fuse that will disable Uconnect, and likely the whole stereo, but not sure if that is enough.
  • moparisthebest
    can you find the board with the sim card/radio and see if it has power when you pull that ?
  • FYI there is https://view.gaytrix.org/r/_bifrost_carnuts_code.moparisthe.best:aria-net.org if this gets too offtopic for here
  • Root
    > FYI there is https://view.gaytrix.org/r/_bifrost_carnuts_code.moparisthe.best:aria-net.org if this gets too offtopic for here
    Thanks!
  • lorenzo
    > * Improve message load performance
    Wow! Seems a lot faster!
  • jammer49
    J
    Hello - can someone tell me the pros and cons of using 5222.de vs. snikket for my jabber id registration? I would only be using this for the purpose of setting up a jmp.chat calling account. I don't know if there any privacy pros/cons or uptime/reliability differences I should be aware of
  • maxsan
    > Hello - can someone tell me the pros and cons of using 5222.de vs. snikket for my jabber id registration? I would only be using this for the purpose of setting up a jmp.chat calling account. I don't know if there any privacy pros/cons or uptime/reliability differences I should be aware of
    its just two different providers, very little difference
  • You can check their ratings maybe xmpp observer or similar service.. I dunno if its a new one now or what
  • MattJ
    jammer49, 5222.de is a free volunteer-run service, where anyone can sign up and create accounts like <username@5222.de>. Snikket is a paid hosting service (which JMP bundles for free with your subscription) by Snikket CIC (of which I'm the founder). With Snikket you get your own domain (you can either bring your own custom domain, or use an available subdomain of our 'snikket.chat' domain).
  • Once your Snikket instance is running, it's basically your own private XMPP service, and you can invite people and manage accounts.
  • jammer49
    J
    In reply to
    MattJ
  • jammer49, 5222.de is a free volunteer-run service, where anyone can sign up and create accounts like <username@5222.de>. Snikket is a paid hosting service (which JMP bundles for free with your subscription) by Snikket CIC (of which I'm the founder). With Snikket you get your own domain (you can either bring your own custom domain, or use an available subdomain of our 'snikket.chat' domain).
    • Thanks! So there isn't a privacy tradeoff by choosing snikket (using one of your subdomains) since it is a company? It sounds like it will probably be more reliable as it is a paid hosting service
  • MattJ
    I don't think there is a privacy trade-off. I don't know what 5222.de's policies are, but ours are public here: https://snikket.org/hosting/privacy/
  • I *think* 5222.de has been around a while, but I'm not sure who runs it. There are certainly some free public services I would avoid, as it's often hard to identify who is actually behind them.
  • jammer49
    J
    Thank you, I'm going to give snikket a go. That seems like a solid privacy policy :) On a somewhat unrelated note, do you have experience using jmp.chat behind a vpn on mobile? I am going to be running it on graphene behind a mullvad vpn. Curious if connections are generally solid in this setup
  • MattJ
    I don't have direct experience of JMP.chat calls over a VPN (it's likely that others here do). I can say that I had trouble making (any) calls with a VPN active on my previous phone. I think it was an Android bug because it works fine on my newer phone (broken was Android 9, newer is Android 10 or 11).
  • I take it back, my current phone is Android 12, so I don't know if 10/11 work or not
  • jammer49
    J
    Thanks for that feedback. Yeah, I guess my goal was to keep an always running vpn on my phone and to never use my actual SIM for calls/sms but to rely solely on jmp.chat numbers for privacy reasons. I do have a newer pixel that I flashed graphene onto, so its the latest android
  • I wonder if that is the reason most people use jmp.chat (the scenario I described for privacy) or if I am just being paranoid :)
  • MattJ
    I think that's a common use case, yes. I don't know exactly what portion of JMP customers are using it that way, but I'm certain it's not insignificant :)
  • I mostly use my number for when I need to make a US call (I'm in the UK), or need to sign up to some random service that shouldn't really need my phone number but insists on one.
  • jammer49
    J
    Its kind of unfortunate that there isn't an unlimited plan from jmp.chat, I use about 60-120 minutes of calling per day due to my work, so I'll burn through quite a bit of money using jmp vs using my actual SIM (which has unlimited calls/sms)
  • In reply to
    MattJ
  • I mostly use my number for when I need to make a US call (I'm in the UK), or need to sign up to some random service that shouldn't really need my phone number but insists on one.
    • I gotcha, so I take it you don't object to using your 'real' sim number for most of your legacy calls/sms?
  • MattJ
    Yeah, I don't object. I don't use it all that much anyway, mostly for receiving SMS codes these days :P
  • All my communication with my family over Snikket/XMPP by now, so it's just occasional calls to school/doctor/plumber, etc.
  • jammer49
    J
    That makes sense! I wish my family/friends were not stuck on iMessage and more willing to change. I finally got a few family members onto signal.

    One of the reasons I have been thinking of divorcing my publicly known number from the number of my actual SIM is after reading this article:
    https://krebsonsecurity.com/2024/04/fcc-fines-major-u-s-wireless-carriers-for-selling-customer-location-data/
  • MattJ
    Yeah. If my location changed much, I'd probably care more. I work from home. Most of the time my phone is in flight mode and only connected to my home wifi. I get email notifications about voicemails, and I turn it on when I need to make a call. They already know where I live, and don't get much value out of my location data, I think 🙂
  • One of the JMP.chat founders doesn't carry a phone at all, and gave this talk about it: https://archive.org/details/fossy2023_You_dont_carry_a_phone_Improvi
  • jammer49
    J
    That makes sense, I didn't know you could get email notifications about voicemails, I'll see if I have that feature. I appreciate you sharing that video, I'll give it a watch this evening!
  • MattJ
    Ah, when my phone is unreachable I have a diversion to a UK SIP provider, and they email the voicemail
  • You could do the same with JMP I guess, and they also send you a transcription (via chat, not email)
  • jammer49
    J
    Gotcha, thanks
  • I think I may actually follow your lead and stick with using my SIM card for my legacy calls/sms given how many calling minutes I use per month. And then keep my jmp.chat account as a secondary number for people I don't want to have my 'real' number
  • MattJ
    Yeah, that's a lot of phone calls... I can't imagine spending over an hour per day on the phone. I make a phone call once a month or less 😅
  • sfaulken
    _
    > I think I may actually follow your lead and stick with using my SIM card for my legacy calls/sms given how many calling minutes I use per month. And then keep my jmp.chat account as a secondary number for people I don't want to have my 'real' number
    that's basically what I do, I know any calls coming in on my mint mobile number are things I don't care about, and can go directly to voicemail
  • MattJ
    JMP are currently working on some new routes, I don't know if that will perhaps unlock some alternative pricing, we'll see
  • jammer49
    J
    In reply to
    MattJ
  • Yeah, that's a lot of phone calls... I can't imagine spending over an hour per day on the phone. I make a phone call once a month or less 😅
    • Haha yes, on a positive note, I try to walk whenever I'm on the phone so I get a lot of steps in everyday
  • MattJ
    Ah yes, good idea :)
  • jammer49
    J
    In reply to
    _
    sfaulken
  • > I think I may actually follow your lead and stick with using my SIM card for my legacy calls/sms given how many calling minutes I use per month. And then keep my jmp.chat account as a secondary number for people I don't want to have my 'real' number
    that's basically what I do, I know any calls coming in on my mint mobile number are things I don't care about, and can go directly to voicemail
    • I see, I think I may be doing the opposite in fact. Where my mint mobile number would be my business/friends/family calls so I would answer, but my jmp.chat number would handle most of my less important calls/spam
  • sfaulken
    _
    I hate talking on the phone in the first place, so only people that I actually want to talk to get the number attached to my jmp.chat number
  • TRW24
    _
    MattJ and Jammer49: I have a new Pixel 8 with GrapheneOS and am making JMP.Chat calls with the JMP.Chat physical data SIM through Mullvad VPN with Wireguard. It works well over ethernet and wifi, too. I have been using the setup with the JMP.Chat data SIM for about a year and the setup with a US Mobile data SIM for a year prior to this. I have used the JMP.Chat service and Cheogram through Mullvad VPN for about three consecutive years total. It all works fine. It's all XMPP I have been using. When the phone on the other end gets answered, there is a short pause then a beep sound, then the conversation can start. I live in Texas, USA and am in rural areas mostly. The JMP.Chat SIM seems to work fine.
  • jammer49
    J
    In reply to
    _
    TRW24
  • MattJ and Jammer49: I have a new Pixel 8 with GrapheneOS and am making JMP.Chat calls with the JMP.Chat physical data SIM through Mullvad VPN with Wireguard. It works well over ethernet and wifi, too. I have been using the setup with the JMP.Chat data SIM for about a year and the setup with a US Mobile data SIM for a year prior to this. I have used the JMP.Chat service and Cheogram through Mullvad VPN for about three consecutive years total. It all works fine. It's all XMPP I have been using. When the phone on the other end gets answered, there is a short pause then a beep sound, then the conversation can start. I live in Texas, USA and am in rural areas mostly. The JMP.Chat SIM seems to work fine.
    • That is wonderful to hear. I think if jmp.chat ever does offer an unlimited plan, I'd be able to use it as my primary number. I have to typically do between 60-120 minutes of legacy calling for work nowadays, so their current plans just add too much cost for me to make it worth it to use as a primary
  • singpolyma
    The trouble with an unlimited plan is that the only way to offea one is to trick people who don't need it into paying por it anyway, and using the money from them to subsidize the heavier users.
  • So we could offer one, but it's hard to know at what price point we could get this trick to break even
  • Since many customers already ask us for *smaller* plans certainly we know not everyone would move up to a bigger one. But maybe enough would, it's hard to say
  • Gnafu the Great
    _
    Two hours a day at current calling North American rates would be less than $25/month for work days or a but over $30/month for 30 days.
  • MattJ
    Like the "unlimited" data SIM I recently purchased while my internet was down - ToS had a clause that said "Don't use this to replace your home broadband"
  • Gnafu the Great
    _
    (Which I know some unlimited plans do beat, but not all.)
  • MattJ
    It's just priced high enough that they believe enough people will never consume that amount of data
  • Gnafu the Great
    _
    s/a but over/a bit over/
  • MattJ: It's like they knew exactly what you wanted to do ;-).
  • singpolyma
    Gnafu the Great: right, that's a great point. I can't imagine offering an unlimited plan for less than $20/mo at the absolute cheapest so it would likely barely be cheaper
  • Mike
    Yeah and *especially* for calling, I imagine there's a very small subset of users who use in excess of 120 minutes per day.
  • singpolyma
    > Don't use this to replace your home broadband
    "Don't worry, I just don't have home broadband so it's not a replacement"
  • MattJ
    I broke the rules, I'm still here to tell the tale
  • Gnafu the Great
    _
    :-O
  • singpolyma
    moparisthebest: btw yes OLED black is still possible as a custom theme on A11+ and it will convert your OLEDblack setteng to the equivalent custom theme for you when you upgrade
  • moparisthebest
    Ooh nice thanks
  • jammer49
    J
    In reply to
    singpolyma
  • Gnafu the Great: right, that's a great point. I can't imagine offering an unlimited plan for less than $20/mo at the absolute cheapest so it would likely barely be cheaper
    • Yeah, I mean I have in the past used things like US Mobile and more recently used Infimobile and pay less than $10 per month for unlimited calls/sms and somewhere between 2-5 gb of data/month
  • *

    Yeah, I mean I have in the past used things like US Mobile and more recently used Infimobile and pay less than $10 per month for unlimited calls/sms and somewhere between 2-5 gb of data/month

    But I guess the cost increases a fair amount because now I need to pay for more data (as my couple hours of jmp calls per day will use data) and then pay jmp between $20-$30 as well. So its an increase of around $40/month I'm estimating which is almost $500/year

  • Gnafu the Great
    _
    Yeah, I definitely see those plans. Of course, those are heavily subsidized by all the users who don't use it that much along with selling all kinds of data to advertisers and economies of scale :-). That's not to say you shouldn't use that if it works for you.
  • jammer49
    J
    From a cost efficiency standpoint, mysudo would likely be cheaper at $150/year for unlimited calling and 9 numbers... but not sure I feel comfortable with them
  • aquatone
    _
    MySudo does not work well on VPN.. it used to tho...
  • Mike
    That may just be a specific VPN issue
  • aquatone
    _
    could be but I think it's related to upstream... specifically Twilio
  • john
    I need some way to connect to my snicker with a pots phone
  • Is that even possible
  • ossguy
    _
    john: you want to forward incoming JMP calls to a landline?
  • john
    Sure? Is that how it's done?
  • I want this to be my landline
  • ossguy
    _
    I'm not sure what you mean - do you have an existing landline phone? or you want a new Internet desk phone to use with JMP?
  • Main
    _
    My JMP account was cancelled. Where do I add more funds? The top up command doesn't work
  • ossguy
    _
    did you send a private inquiry to JMP support?
  • Main
    _
    Yes
  • john
    > I'm not sure what you mean - do you have an existing landline phone? or you want a new Internet desk phone to use with JMP?
    Sort of this, but like, a rotary
  • ossguy
    _
    Main: JMP support will get back to you within 24 hours
  • john: sure, you can use a rotary phone with JMP if you like
  • Mike
    I wanna set that up at some point
  • Just for the meme
  • ossguy
    _
    IIRC you'll need to get a Grandstream HT702 device, and log that into your JMP SIP account
  • (it supports the pulse dialing that a rotary phone requires)
  • john
    Yeah it's just for the meme, but how do I connect it is the question
  • Oh okay
  • ossguy
    _
    then you can plug in any old rotary phone to that
  • john
    That's easy enough
  • deport
    man, that would be nice
  • Mike
    Telegram over JMP when
  • * Telegraph over JMP when
  • Wait is it telegraph or telegram
  • ossguy
    _
    I mean both are things
  • Mike
    Telegram (the messenger) has ruined everything
  • ossguy
    _
    a telegram is usually delivered in-person
  • a telegraph is over the wire, usually Morse code
  • Mike
    Oh right right. Thanks
  • Gnafu the Great
    _
    But what about a candygram?
  • Mike
    True
  • Christmasgram over XMPP?
  • Gnafu the Great
    _
    Gives a new meaning to "Jingle all the way," eh? {:-]
  • Mike
    YES
  • MarsIronPI
    _
    And so getting presents needs a new XEP: Present Transfer over Jingle
  • Gnafu the Great
    _
    My presence is a present.
  • ossguy
    _
    the first P in XMPP is for Gnafu the Great‎'s Presence
  • rogueren
    if JMP is ever able to do RCS, would it still have the same censorship issue? Assuming RCS is updated to be encrypted like Apple wants
  • singpolyma
    We have access to sms without most of the censorship already. I'm hoping to roll out soon
  • RCS we also have in internal testing, but definitely no encryption for this version yet. Google is still trying to convince the standards body abiut that
  • moparisthebest
    Google is the standards body though...
  • keverets
    _
    "I am the law" - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=miVoe7U6Lx4&t=30
  • singpolyma
    Heh, they wish
  • keverets
    _
    They've managed to finangle their way to becoming the de facto standard for email, to the point that small email services now struggle for delivery when gmail makes changes
  • rogueren
    > RCS we also have in internal testing, but definitely no encryption for this version yet. Google is still trying to convince the standards body abiut that
    I though it was Apple pushing for that one
  • singpolyma
    rogueren: apple isn't doing rcs yet but they've said they'll refuse to add encryption to it until Google succeeds with tve standards body. They don't want to implement anything not in the standard
  • * rogueren: apple isn't doing rcs yet but they've said they'll refuse to add encryption to it until Google succeeds with the standards body. They don't want to implement anything not in the standard
  • rogueren
    🤦
  • They made it sound like THEY were the ones who were working to get encryption added to the standard
  • singpolyma
    Of course they did
  • rogueren
    Once again Apple doesn't do the work and then takes credit
  • singpolyma
    Honestly I don't care too much which of two bad corps gets credit for doing a meh thing haha
  • Anyway, I might have our early RCS ready for testing this summer, but it's very limited for now. Might get more interesting over time
  • rogueren
    As much of a privacy nightmare Google is, I still have a bigger hatred for Apple
  • singpolyma
    Doesn't support groups yet for instance
  • > As much of a privacy nightmare Google is, I still have a bigger hatred for Apple
    This is also my position tbh
  • drew
    Someone says I sound like Max Headroom.
  • I called them. They are on a regular cell phone. I even tried hanging up and re-calling. But the same thinggg.
  • jackhill
    > As much of a privacy nightmare Google is, I still have a bigger hatred for Apple
    If I'm lucky/crafty enough it will never come to this, but in the spirit of being prepared: if I ever have to run proprietary apps I'd need to decide on Apple v. Google. Somehow Apple seems less icky for that. Maybe it's their marketing.
  • ossguy
    _
    drew‎: have you tried calling a test number?
  • drew
    A Soprani test number?
  • Root
    Definitely their marketing. Apple scrapes just as much data, more in some cases. They just hold it all in house.
  • ossguy
    _
    drew‎: any phone network test number, like +1 631 791 8378 for example
  • (from https://thetestcall.blogspot.com/ )
  • you can call that by tapping https://matrix.to/#/@_bifrost_=2b16317918378=40cheogram.com:aria-net.org
  • xyzgg
    _
    >> As much of a privacy nightmare Google is, I still have a bigger hatred for Apple
    > This is also my position tbh
    Apple is worse
  • drew
    I tried that number from cheogram on android and the recording soudned fine. Now I'm trying to call it from movim on a desktop computer but can't seem to add that contact as a callable contact in movim.
  • ossguy
    _
    drew‎: try adding it in Cheogram Android, and then finding that contact in Movim after that to call it
  • jackhill
    This has been helpful, thanks. Hopefully, I'll never need that information. I guess the other thing is that when searching for Android stuff online the advice and sites give me an, "everything is very thashy" impression.
  • Any idea which is better for longevity? Does Apple support their stuff for longer or respect license terms more?
  • ossguy
    _
    jackhill‎: they do not respect license terms more
  • drew
    ossguy: It took some back and forth but I finally got the contact callable. My audio is indeed "scrambled" and it sounds almost exactly like the Max Headroom effect.
  • jackhill
    ossguy: 🙁 I don't know why I was expecting anything different
  • drew
    Seems like it must be a movim issue.
  • ossguy
    _
    drew: so only with Movim and not Cheogram Android?
  • they're on the same network/wifi?
  • drew
    ossguy: Yes, same network. Computer is wired and android device is on the wifi of the same network.
  • ossguy
    _
    odd; which instance of Movim?
  • and have you tried Dino on that computer?
  • drew
    The one at mov.im.
  • Ossguy: The computer is running macos. I don't think I could get Dino to work on this machine. Or there was something it was missing.
  • ossguy
    _
    drew‎: try Beagle then
  • drew
    ossguy: just tried with Beagle. Same problem. I wonder if I have an audio interface issue. I'll try a reboot.
  • And, since Beagle doesn't have a dial pad, it's difficult to use the test number.
  • drew
    ossguy: a reboot seems to have cleared the issue. So, I don't know exactly what it was but, jmp it was likely not.
  • BruceS
    _
    I mistakenly blocked a contact that sent me a message. I need to unblock that contact. How can I do that?
  • Gnafu the Great
    _
    If you go into Manage Accounts and tap on your account, there should be a "Show block list" option under the account settings.
  • BruceS
    _
    Thanks. That was it...
  • hrmo
    _
    Hey are y'all able to receive 2FA codes from websites on JMP numbers? The only way I can afford to start paying for JMP is if I give up my cellphone but I'm worried this will turn out to be a big hindrance without a cellular number
  • Gnafu the Great
    _
    hrmo: It has worked for me with the services I need, and you can see others' experiences here:

    https://wiki.soprani.ca/FAQ/Why%20isn%27t%20my%20number%20being%20accepted%20by%20an%20online%20service%3F
  • rogueren
    My deciding factor in Apple versus Google is that Google doesn't try to stop me from doing what I want with my device.
  • ossguy
    _
    hrmo‎: we will also soon be adding new SMS routes in case anything doesn't work for you; it will work on the new route
  • Gnafu the Great
    _
    The only one I had issues with was signing up for Venmo after porting my number. They refused because it was "VoIP". I was happy to just not use Venmo 😛. I don't know if they'd give you any grief if you already have an account, but my existing PayPal account has worked fine for me.
  • ossguy
    _
    I'm Denver
  • 1689
    _
    ossguy: hi which one of you, simp or you is denver,? Been watching some interviews.
  • ossguy
    _
    probably the interviews are me, but I think singpolyma has done a couple as well
  • 1689
    _
    ossguy: very good interviews. Impressed with your focus on free software/freedom software and privacy. Thank you.
  • ossguy
    _
    you're welcome! I'm curious which ones, but no pressure :)
  • hrmo
    _
    Actually PayPal has given me a lot of grief in the past. And it looks like several of the financial services I use are blocking JMP numbers 😒
  • jackhill
    > My deciding factor in Apple versus Google is that Google doesn't try to stop me from doing what I want with my device.
    Yeah. My hypothetical is a weird case because I'd maintain my own computers where I can do what I want, and this device would specifically be for things I can't control.
  • > Actually PayPal has given me a lot of grief in the past. And it looks like several of the financial services I use are blocking JMP numbers 😒
    PayPal has given me a lot of grief too, just not to do with my phone number
  • moparisthebest
    >> My deciding factor in Apple versus Google is that Google doesn't try to stop me from doing what I want with my device.
    > Yeah. My hypothetical is a weird case because I'd maintain my own computers where I can do what I want, and this device would specifically be for things I can't control.
    Google doesn't? Ok install regular Linux on it then, I'll wait.
  • me
    ossyguy: here you go: https://archive.org/details/fossy2023_You_dont_carry_a_phone_Improvi

    https://archive.org/details/fossy2023_You_dont_carry_a_phone_Improvi
  • ossguy
    _
    thanks!
  • jackhill
    > Google doesn't? Ok install regular Linux on it then, I'll wait.
    I didn't say my other computers were from Google
  • me
    Google allows one to de-googled phones with OS like graphene, Lineage, etc. Apple has no alternative for privacy and no identity on phone.
  • Zippo
    Is there a way to change my calling number for a contact in my Cheogram contacts (no listed in phone contacts app)? I want to change which of my multiple numbers Cheogram will use to call the contact. I don't want to have multiple entries for the contact specifying different calling from numbers.
  • Mike
    The contacts are linked to the account in Cheogram. You could just use the system dialer with multiple calling accounts enabled.
  • vimmy
    _
    > Google allows one to de-googled phones with OS like graphene, Lineage, etc. Apple has no alternative for privacy and no identity on phone.
    I wouldn't say they "allow" it directly - their business model differs by relying on vendors to make a complete product. Custom ROMS are a byproduct of that model.
  • moparisthebest
    jackhill: sorry I was responding to "Google doesn't try to stop me from doing what I want on my device"
  • > Google allows one to de-googled phones with OS like graphene, Lineage, etc. Apple has no alternative for privacy and no identity on phone.
    me: Google doesn't allow this in any way, in fact they actively push against it, see: device attestation and all that crap
  • Zippo
    > The contacts are linked to the account in Cheogram. You could just use the system dialer with multiple calling accounts enabled.
    Thanks for the reply. The system dialer requires Cheogram contacts be listed in the system dialer as well. They aren't. So, I'll have to think what I want to do about that.
  • Mike
    What's the use case if you don't mind? Like when would you want to call a single contact from multiple different accounts?
  • jordigh
    Any reports of success getting SMS 2FA (god I hate these) from Wise?
  • I swear I've gotten one in the past but today I had to opt for a phone call instead.
  • Oooh, nice, Wise lets me use TOTP 2FA instead.
  • Zippo
    Mike: I have contacts that have been called on one jmp number that I want to move to a different number.
  • ossguy
    _
    jordigh‎: SMS 2FA has always worked for me with Wise, but I'm glad you got something better working
  • jordigh‎: the problem could be with Wise
  • jordigh
    ossguy: Weird. I wonder if the problem is with jmp.chat or with dismail
  • ossguy
    _
    they might send to some numbers but not others
  • jordigh
    They can phone me, so they probably are doing that thing where they think my phone number is a landline and cannot be convinced otherwise.
  • It's so frustrating. There's no way to get anyone in tech support to understand what the problem even is when you call them.
  • * jordigh wishes for an IRL shibboleet
  • Zippo
    * Mike: I have contacts that have been called on one jmp number that I want to move to a different number. So, that's the point. I don't want multiple listing of the same name being called from different numbers. Too hard to select the right one quickly.
  • ossguy
    _
    we're hoping to get this all resolved soon with our new routes (discussed here a few days ago)
  • jordigh
    ooh really?
  • How will that work, without changing our phone numbers?
  • ossguy
    _
    jordigh‎: no need to change your phone number - we'll just port between carriers on our end but you'll see no difference on yours
  • jordigh
    Invisible magic, just the way I like it.
  • MarsIronPI
    _
    Is there a way to check on a pending number porting? I just want to make sure it hasn't failed silently.
  • ossguy
    _
    MarsIronPI‎: you can always send a private inquiry to JMP support to ask
  • often it takes a few days for the carriers to get back to us with a port date, so seeing no activity for a bit is fairly common
  • vimmy
    _
    For the Premium and Premium+ routes, what's considered a long-standing customer?
  • ossguy
    _
    vimmy‎: that's case-by-case
  • send a private inquiry to JMP support if you'd like to be added to our verification queue on that
  • keverets
    _
    Out of curiosity, is it anticipated if Canadian numbers be allowed to be ported to Premium or Premium+ in the future?
  • Is there any anticipated improvement in voice quality or QoS guarantee with Premium or Premium+?
  • hhktddsevvsktttyteev
    _
    Vg
  • singpolyma
    keverets: we haven't tested voice extensively except to confirm it works. the "jmp sip accounts" will not work with Premium[+] and forwarding to a phone number may be limited or work differently, but otherwise it should be pretty similar. We haven't asked anyone on there about Canada enablement yet, want to get some traffic running over stuff we know is supposed to work before we ask about other things too much
  • Premium+ is almost definitely not going to be an option, but there's a small chance Premium for Canada will be a thing eventually
  • vimmy: are you currently a customer? maybe on another account?
  • keverets
    _
    singpolyma: good to know. Thanks!
  • vimmy
    _
    > vimmy: are you currently a customer? maybe on another account?
    singpolyma: yes, on a separate JID. I don't need the alternates as I'm low usage, don't use _much_ profanity, and have accepted the "VoIP is a second class citizen" ideology so don't mind a nonzero failure rate, but I will inquire privately if needed.
  • s/VoIP/non-cellular/
  • jammer49
    J
    Has anyone been able to use their jmp.chat number to register with whatsapp? I have not been successful, it just kicks out a message denying the registration, assuming they look for voip numbers
  • ossguy
    _
    jammer49‎: yes, many people here have
  • several have reported that contacting WhatsApp support after an initial signup failure will cause them to fix it
  • jammer49
    J
    In reply to
    _
    ossguy
  • several have reported that contacting WhatsApp support after an initial signup failure will cause them to fix it
    • Oh ok, thanks, I'll give that a shot
  • Otherwise I may just port in a 'real' sim number that I had and that should do the trick
  • @taivlam:matrix.org
    In reply to
    J
    jammer49
  • Otherwise I may just port in a 'real' sim number that I had and that should do the trick
    • JMP Chat on Whatsapp seems to be a mixed bag. If you figure it out, then you could edit the comment column to give more details on the how:
    https://wiki.soprani.ca/FAQ/Why%20isn%27t%20my%20number%20being%20accepted%20by%20an%20online%20service%3F
  • gift card recipient
    _
    > Otherwise I may just port in a 'real' sim number that I had and that should do the trick
    doesn't work as well it used to, some of these db lookups are realtime
  • can't rely on "cellular blocks" of numbers anymore
  • gift card recipient_
    _
    an appearance on r/privacysecurityosint...beware of those people
  • LH
    _
    Is there a way to confirm on which devices one's account is signed into?

  • ossguy
    _
    LH‎: many clients will show you the list of other logged-in resources, such as Gajim
  • LH
    _
    Oh, thanks! I was looking for something similar within Cheogram
  • wreck
    I'm unclear if it's worth submitting a request to move my number to premium vs. Premium+ provider, they seem comparable to each other. All this assumes I'm even in good enough standing to move my number anyway but curious why I might request one over the other... Both my numbers are in area codes supported by p+
  • singpolyma
    wreck: p+ is definitely what you want if you can get it
  • it should basically eliminate the "will my number be accepted by this service" question, for example
  • wreck
    Just ran into that the other day with my meal delivery service, so definitely interested in improving the experience...
  • Do existing jmp numbers fall into the "any other provider" category for porting availability?
  • singpolyma
    yes, however we could imagine doing a small dance to port out to a mobile carrier and then back in to p+ if that were interesting to someone
  • qy
    singpolyma: nothing spectacular. it just looks as you'd expect, meanwhile somewhere between those last entries, it happened again
  • https://share.xa0.uk:5281/upload/nOdoiMaiVlEq0bnOZIFUoOTJ/zb2rhkH6jHcFQPpwofD4XJV7MUg1R34BFBBRYsfxBy7dPEf4L.jpg
  • (tried to take a scrolling screenshot but its not playing ball)
  • singpolyma
    qy: so not ooming or evicting at all. 🤔
  • qy
    yeah
  • im just confused now
  • wgreenhouse
    singpolyma: I had a blessed jabber.el experience. new contributor realized we already track data I was sure we threw away, and it's elegant to access
  • (there's a data structure in which stanza-id _was already mapped_ to position in the chat buffer)
  • singpolyma
    wgreenhouse: nice
  • wgreenhouse
    even though at the time it was written there was no known use for that
  • 🤯
  • singpolyma
    jump-to-position from a history search or something might use such a thing, one could imagine
  • wgreenhouse
    it wasn't obvious to me that we kept tags other than body because our current history implementation throws them away
  • but in the live buffer they are there
  • so incompatible rewrite of the history stuff yay
  • ossguy
    _
    wreck: to be clear, if your number is in one of the area codes we listed, that just means it _might_ be Premium+ compatible - to know if it truly is, we'd need to see the first 6 digits of the number so we can do a final lookup
  • wgreenhouse
    here's what the sexpy IR as stashed away in a data structure running parallel and underneath the text retains:
  • ```
    ELISP> (ewoc-data (ewoc-locate jabber-chat-ewoc))
    (:muc-local
    (message
    ((xml:lang . "en")
    (to . "wgreenhouse@hmm.st/Emacs")
    (from . "discuss@conference.soprani.ca/wgreenhouse")
    (type . "groupchat")
    (id . "BWjTnXshcfCc01Q4p-p1FWe5"))
    (occupant-id
    ((xmlns . "urn:https://matrix.to/#/@_bifrost_occupant-id:aria-net.org:0")
    (id . "UUMzZ5887ZoC6i+x0teiWuXTY/pu3GDbK21h3icO/sQ=")))
    (stanza-id
    ((xmlns . "urn:https://matrix.to/#/@_bifrost_sid:aria-net.org:0")
    (id . "493665a1-8da0-4216-8286-c4587be94d37")
    (by . "discuss@conference.soprani.ca")))
    (body nil "here's what the sexpy IR as stashed away in a data structure running parallel and underneath the text retains:
    "))
    :time
    (26180 1297 579147 342000))
    ```
  • moparisthebest
    wgreenhouse: you have a helpful new contributor? Is his name Jia? 😁
  • wgreenhouse
    lol no
  • anyway, I'm grateful that the oldest parts of this mode decided to keep even the parts of stanzas they had no idea they'd need to parse in 2004
  • Caleb
    wgreenhouse: Is that XMPP SXML in Emacs Lisp?
  • gift card recipient
    _
    why does premium not support google voice? is it specifically google voice or [other bandwidth customer]?
  • wgreenhouse
    Caleb: yes
  • Caleb
    wgreenhouse: Nice.
  • wgreenhouse
    Caleb: that is the internal representation of xmpp stanzas as they are pushed around internally by jabber.el
  • usually as the XML-DATA arg to a big chain of functions
  • ossguy
    _
    gift card recipient: because Google and/or Bandwidth refuse to talk to the Premium+ carrier
  • singpolyma
    specifically over MMS
  • SMS works fine
  • and MMS from Google Voice works fine
  • moparisthebest
    So can't message other JMP numbers? Or your short-circuit fixes this?
  • singpolyma
    short circuit will fix this
  • moparisthebest
    XMPP is awesome lol
  • singpolyma
    and it would only affect MMS in the worst case
  • Caleb
    singpolyma: Oh, JMP#->JMP# is all XMPP?
  • singpolyma
    Caleb: for sms and mms yes
  • voice we don't short circuit yet, but we might eventually
  • Caleb
    singpolyma: Nice.
  • moparisthebest
    Sounds like if you don't calling between the routes won't work?
  • gift card recipient
    _
    so should we assume mms'ing any bandwidth number won't work?
  • Caleb
    I need to strengthen my resolve to push Snikket.
  • singpolyma
    moparisthebest: no, the only thing that doesn't work between the routes is mms
  • sms and voice work fine
  • gift card recipient: yes, mms to a bandwidth number specifically won't work. And also to GV (even though they don't use bandwidth for their MMS but only for their numbers)
  • I think we'll be able to detect this case 90% of the time and at least fall back to SMS
  • except for group text
  • gift card recipient
    _
    hooray. to. interoperability.
  • Caleb
    Has anyone tried the "free pizza on the Snikket app" yet?
  • gift card recipient
    _
    what about dynamic routing for mms send?
  • if to_carrier <> bandwidth, use default route, else use 'original'
  • singpolyma
    gift card recipient: we can't route sms or mms over two routes for one phone number, since the associated route needs to have proof that they "own" the number to route messages for it
  • gift card recipient
    _
    ah
  • singpolyma
    And I have a small hope we can get the GV MMS to go bidirectional eventually, since they don't actually use bandwidth for this
  • (and still don't for 90% of customers on original)
  • I expect this to be a very small problem in practise, mostly affecting people in a group text with a GV number, which we didn't support properly until last summer anyway
  • wreck
    ossguy: understood, thanks for clarifying
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    i'm a big fan of simplex chat, hope this is not blasphemous here.
  • any plans of "bridging" voip with other alternatives to xmpp?
  • singpolyma
    Anything to which a fully bidirectional gateway is possible is in scope for cheogram for sure
  • I think this is possible with simplex, but it's been awhile since I read the protocol spec
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    would be fantastic. please take another look at it if you have the chance. the devs are also very active and accessible, i'm sure they'd assist if you contacted them about it.
  • Caleb
    Where's the DivestOS chat?
  • ossguy
    _
    Caleb: https://view.gaytrix.org/r/_bifrost_divestos-mobile_conference.konvers.me:aria-net.org
  • Caleb
    GrapheneOS seems to have no problem promoting the Play Store.
  • ossguy: Thanks. Thinking of switching to it. I didn't realize they have a goal of providing as free an image as possible, while supporting the hardware.
  • Root
    Divest is the truly degoogle, secure and free phone OS out of the 3 secure ones available.
  • jackhill
    > moparisthebest: no, the only thing that doesn't work between the routes is mms
    I guess I'm late to the party, but … this seems like an interesting choice… Do you know if it's intentional or just nobody's built it yet?
  • Also, I'm inclinded to stay on original for the better MMS coverage, but if other people can't MMS me… I guess that's better than not being able to MMS them, I'll tell them it's a problem with their carrrier and to take it up there (or switch to XMPP)
  • singpolyma
    It's a bit unclear. I honestly thing the unidirectional situation with Google Voice is a misunderstanding. The zero-directional MMS with bandwidth, one side (bandwidth) says "oh, that carrier isn't on our MMS reachability table" the other side says "yeah, we asked them to add us and they threatened to sue us instead"
  • Stonesmith
    _
    Where do I find out more about Premium and Premium+. This is the first time heard anything....
  • singpolyma
    Stonesmith: https://pad.tildeverse.org/pad/#/2/pad/view/GDZ42qQ1AwwvbK+3az+lSRopowy6ZIP43VPgqIdqKrE/embed/
  • jackhill
    > It's a bit unclear. I honestly thing the unidirectional situation with Google Voice is a misunderstanding. The zero-directional MMS with bandwidth, one side (bandwidth) says "oh, that carrier isn't on our MMS reachability table" the other side says "yeah, we asked them to add us and they threatened to sue us instead"
    yikes, so bizzare.
  • Sounds like I could be interested in switching if the GV thing is resolved. I guess I'll let others test the water first.
  • singpolyma
    alternate is also almost ready to go
  • I hope to have premium ready for testing in a week or so. P+ will also be ready at that time for brand new numbers, but port-ins for P+ will take a bit longer to be ready per the document
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    probably asked a ton and i did read the faq on jmp chat, but what is the recommended way to use cheogram with a european phone number? vonage? twilio? something else?
    i noticed that the wiki pages havent been updated in a whilez maybe the faq on jmp chat as well.
  • jackhill
    P+ doesn't serve my number anyway (and I personally need to GV integration).
  • Do we know if there are likely to be any other people I'd likely want to MMS with on Bandwidth besides (parts of) GV? I assume a lot of their customers are a2p so unlikely I'd need MMS with them, but at one time tere was Republic Wireless too
  • ossguy
    _
    parkaunsafe: Twilio is the best option - note that we only provide community support for it
  • singpolyma
    parkaunsafe: There is no JMP way to do that. Last I heard from ossguy he's quite grumpy with vonage and their api keeps changing, so probably twilio, unless in the UK then maybe A&A
  • ossguy
    _
    see https://wiki.soprani.ca/TwilioSetup (or https://wiki.soprani.ca/AASetup if in the UK)
  • and yes, I agree with singpolyma
  • Stonesmith
    _
    singpolyma: Text support if interested in switching to one of the new options when they are available?
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    and both calls and sms are supported with twilio?
  • ossguy
    _
    (Twilio has docs that show which countries support what)
  • Stonesmith: yes, and/or you can text us now to get on the list (and/or check for Premium+ support)
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    hm what about Hushed?
  • bidirectional?
  • singpolyma
    Stonesmith: yeah, or even text support now if interested and we'll queue you up / let you know when we're ready
  • ossguy
    _
    parkaunsafe: what do you mean? that sounds unrelated to Twilio (it's just a different service)
  • yes, same as ^
  • parkaunsafe: yes, if the country has that support on Twilio
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    i think Hushed is like a privacy-friendly Twilio reseller
  • ossguy
    _
    could be
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    as in, less nosy sign up
  • ossguy
    _
    they just don't give you any of the flexibility of Jabber
  • (proprietary app, no alternatives, etc.)
  • Stonesmith
    _
    singpolyma: Thanks for the doc! I'm in WA USA so no P+ for me...
  • ossguy
    _
    no
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    i mean if i could sign up with Hushed and then setup SGX services.
  • rip.
  • ossguy
    _
    Hushed does not have any API that I know of, and doesn't let you touch their Twilio credentials (if they have them)
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    vanilla twilio it is then.
  • are you behind JMP Chat?
  • jackhill
    are you looking for people to test the other routes (I see some things in Alternet say it's not well tested)? They would be fine for me secondary numbers.
  • singpolyma
    Stonesmith: what general area in WA?
  • jackhill: I think yes, we'd love to move quite a bit of our traffic to premium especially if it works well (we have no reason to believe at this time that it doesn't work well, but of course there's us testing and then there's pushing production volume)
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    > are you behind JMP Chat?
    if you are, no plans on expanding to EU anytime soon, right?
    if you are planning to, i wouldnt mind wanting a bit instead of doing it the twilio way.
  • singpolyma
    I don't know if we will ever be able to provide premium to brand-new customers or not due to anti-fraud concerns, but we're talking out the options internally
  • jackhill
    singpolyma, cool, I'll message support
  • singpolyma
    parkaunsafe: we have a UK partner that is pretty excited to work with us (no A&A, a different one) but they are still getting their own bidirectional SMS stuff set up. Other than that we have no current near-term plans in europe
  • * parkaunsafe: we have a UK partner that is pretty excited to work with us (not A&A, a different one) but they are still getting their own bidirectional SMS stuff set up. Other than that we have no current near-term plans in europe
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    > parkaunsafe: we have a UK partner that is pretty excited to work with us (not A&A, a different one) but they are still getting their own bidirectional SMS stuff set up. Other than that we have no current near-term plans in europe
    i need a portuguese phone number, unfortunately. but good to know that the project is being more adopted.
  • jackhill
    of course the secondary numbers don't have as much traffic as the primary one, but I can still poke around.
  • I don't see it explicity in the bad, but it sounds like premium raises the 10 limit for MMS groups?
  • singpolyma
    yes
  • 1689
    _
    singpolyma: with jmp sim and no cell sim, besides cheogram, are there other ways to call out and receive from PSTN?
  • opinionplatform.org
    _
    > Divest is the truly degoogle, secure and free phone OS out of the 3 secure ones available.
    Iirc divest is not "degoogle". It supports microg for using google apps, and does not claim to be secure. See all the cve patch and other disclaimers... Token mention of Lineage and Calyx.
  • singpolyma
    opinionplatform.org: microg isn't google :P
  • 1689: you mean could you use another app? Sure, any compatible app is possible, but cheogram android will always be the best experience
  • opinionplatform.org
    _
    singpolyma, It's not, but it is for using play store (google) apps.
  • 1689
    _
    singpolyma: thanks
  • singpolyma
    opinionplatform.org: there's no reason one couldn't write a freedomware app that relies on microg and was only ever tested against microg
  • opinionplatform.org
    _
    singpolyma: Many things could be done, but Ecorp supports microg to allow google apps to run, while

    > Service Core (GmsCore) is a library app, providing the functionality required to run apps that use Google Play Services or Google Maps Android API
  • ...
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    > parkaunsafe: we have a UK partner that is pretty excited to work with us (not A&A, a different one) but they are still getting their own bidirectional SMS stuff set up. Other than that we have no current near-term plans in europe
    just to confirm, we as in JMP Chat, not Cheogram, correct?
  • ossguy
    _
    parkaunsafe: it would be branded as JMP probably, yes
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    i meant it as in if it would be something like vonage or twilio where users have to interact directly with the provider or if all the backstage burocracy would be handled by you.
  • also, whats SIP?
  • ossguy
    _
    all the backstage bureaucracy would be handled by us
  • SIP is a standard protocol for voice, which you can use if you want
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    what clients would be able to receive it?
  • ossguy
    _
    any SIP client
  • but it's best not to use it unless you know what you're doing
  • because it doesn't work very reliably on mobile (esp. compared with Jabber)
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    understood, thanks.
  • stonesmith
    _
    > Stonesmith: what general area in WA?
    Seattle adjacent
  • singpolyma
    stonesmith: ok. we'll keep an ear out about that
  • f_
    _
    singpolyma: is irc.cheogram.com monitored for abuse?
  • ossguy
    _
    f_: how do you mean?
  • singpolyma
    f_: it has features allowing the moderators of IRC rooms to prevent abuse, such as identd support so that a JID can be banned using normal idend-name banning techniques
  • f_
    _
    Yes, aware of that (which is nice), but is it monitored for abuse in case some kids decide to all abuse the gateway on multiple networks?
  • Basically, an IRC network I'm interested in forbids "open bouncers/proxies"
  • singpolyma
    Ah, well I guess it is kind of like an open bouncer in that we don't prevent anyone from just showing up and using it
  • MattJ
    That's common to most IRC networks, and stuff running an identd is not usually included in that
  • singpolyma
    Yeah, I guess it's up to the network staff how they think about this
  • MattJ
    Yep, if in doubt, ask
  • f_
    _
    singpolyma: Yeah so I'm sort of trying to sneak in ^^
  • Asked network staff already, just wanted to ask here too to hear what y'all think about this
  • Won't really be a dealbreaker if they end up forbidding cheogram too (I just keep that connection around for logs when I need them), but it's less convienient
  • (at least until I decide to get a proper bouncer)
  • singpolyma
    they could easily whitelist or require registration or whatever on their side
  • f_
    _
    Yes.
  • deimosBSD
    _
    at what point does the data sim auto-renew? i'm about to travel and rely on the jmp sim for data outside the usa
  • the faq doesn't say when it renews, just that it does auto-renew 5gb at a time
  • f_
    _
    FYI I am an IRC netadmin in a small network, and the ident support etc is very much appreciated
  • Mike
    deimosBSD: at 100 MB
  • deimosBSD
    _
    > deimosBSD: at 100 MB
    thank you
  • I figured it was 1 MB, 100MB is better
  • ossguy
    _
    deimosBSD: by "outside the usa" you mean Canada?
  • deimosBSD
    _
    sorry, that's classified ;)
  • yes and the UK, but I know it wont' work there unless I try really hard
  • ossguy
    _
    ok, just making sure :) the JMP SIM only works in the US and Canada
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    any eta for the uk phone numbers mentioned yesterday? and what about monero sign ups, are they still coming?
  • xkwisit
    _
    So does this replace having a sim card?
  • I'm in the UK also and would like to set this up when available.
  • pap
    P
    Hi, are there also European numbers available?
  • gooya
    pap: Not yet afaik. Been waiting too for that to happen
  • ossguy
    _
    xkwisit: what features of a SIM card do you want to replace? if you want to text and call people, you can use JMP, and if you want cellular data you can use JMP SIM
  • parkaunsafe, xkwisit: no ETA on the UK numbers (or Monero signups) yet - if you'd like a UK number in the meantime, we suggest trying https://wiki.soprani.ca/AASetup
  • pap, gooya: if you want a European number outside the UK, then we currently recommend https://wiki.soprani.ca/TwilioSetup
  • gooya
    ossguy twillio has kyc, which I prefer to avoid
  • lorenzo
    Me too! 😅
  • pussycat
    _
    hey guys how can I download Cheogram's APKs from its git repo???
  • ossguy
    _
    pussycat: https://git.singpolyma.net/cheogram-android/refs - for example https://git.singpolyma.net/cheogram-android/refs/2.13.4-1 has apks
  • pap, gooya: which country(ies) in Europe do you want numbers in?
  • pussycat
    _
    > pussycat: https://git.singpolyma.net/cheogram-android/refs - for example https://git.singpolyma.net/cheogram-android/refs/2.13.4-1 has apks
    okay, I forgot to mention that I wanna get pre-releases, not standard releases
  • gooya
    ossguy: Preferably the Netherlands
  • lorenzo
    > pap, gooya: which country(ies) in Europe do you want numbers in?
    Italy 💙
  • ossguy
    _
    pussycat: they're in the Cheogram official pre-release F-Droid repo
  • MarsIronPI
    _
    How will I be notified when my number's port is complete? Will I be notified if it fails?
  • SavagePeanut
    _
    MarsIronPI, you will get a message from support when it is approved and the expected time it will start. They will message you again when it is complete
  • MarsIronPI
    _
    SavagePeanut: Will they also let me know if the port fails?
  • SavagePeanut
    _
    Yes
  • kingmarzolaptop
    Any known issues today?
  • My calls just keep ringing and ringing without going to voicemail or anything, so I'm guessing it's not actually even connecting.
  • It would be helping if it let you know somehow if it has connecting to the network or not, I.e. is it really ringing on their end or just on my end? It shouldn't make a ringing noise when I call unless it's actually ringing.
  • * It would be helpful if it let you know somehow if it has connected to the network or not, I.e. is it really ringing on their end or just on my end? It shouldn't make a ringing noise when I call unless it's actually ringing on their end...
  • singpolyma
    this is for outbound calls?
  • if you call from in the app it will show all the different status strings before showing ringing on the ui
  • kingmarzolaptop
    Yes
  • It rang and rang for 9 minutes just now before I finally hung up. If it was really actually ringing, it would have gone to voicemail long before that...
  • I was calling from the app, but it doesn't give me any feedback
  • I'm using Cheogram app on GrapheneOS Pixel 4
  • > I was calling from the app, but it doesn't give me any feedback
    I mean no statuses showing on any calls
  • singpolyma
    if you look at the screen the title at the top while you are calling shows you current status. goes discovering devices, then ringing for example
  • donjuan
    _
    https://media0.giphy.com/media/3otPorfb8Lu7wjKllm/giphy.webp?cid=c5762def2zulee591p7taf71w8xolvnqz4ogv3kkaqo7b9uw&ep=v1_gifs_gifId&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g
  • codebus
    _
    Are granular notification settings anywhere in the roadmap for cheogram? I get a lot of notifications from one account that I'd prefer to silence from time to time, but another to which more urgent messages come thru.
  • singpolyma
    codebus: check the quiet hours setting on the account
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    > pap, gooya: which country(ies) in Europe do you want numbers in?
    Portugal, if you have non kyc options let me know.
  • does cheogram not work with omemo encryption?
  • singpolyma
    It does
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    odd, i cant seem to register without omemo
  • maybe i'm just a noob with xmpp
  • singpolyma
    How do you mean?
  • What are you trying to do?
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    > odd, i cant seem to register without omemo
    with omemo i mean
  • https://share.conversations.im/parkaunsafe/kjuzTcLZwKyVtVFo/zb2rhgHGErGBDTWzharAv6XQ2oNac1CBq7APxT9tpyJA9e4Ut.jpg
  • singpolyma
    Probably you tried to send an image. I made you a member now can you try again?
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    https://share.conversations.im/parkaunsafe/B6lvl5dkAiHQAEmD/zb2rhoEe13YJsUJf7xX51EwhW3MR8Kd3i7EcQsPaarH7qDn8i.jpg
  • it was this.
  • singpolyma
    Oh, yes you won't be able to use OMEMO with cheogram.com
  • Faom monocles you shouldn't even need to send messages to it
  • They support commands tab
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    this happens when i attempt to send a message with omemo encryption to the cheogram.com contact
  • > They support commands tab
    yes but that tab doesnt work with omemo either. i get the same message there with omemo enabled.
  • singpolyma
    For sure you can't use OMEMO. I'm a bit surprised they block the commands tab with it since omemo isn't really relevant there
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    oh, commands tab is not working at all turns out, even without omemo 🤷
  • singpolyma
    What does it do?
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    nothing at all, clicking the register command does the same as doing nothing.
  • singpolyma
    Hmm. Might be worth reporting to arne
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    alright, tbh soprani is the only reason why i even have an xmpp client and account.
  • singpolyma
    Is there a reason you switched to monocles?
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    https://simplifiedprivacy.com/voip/
  • i learned about jmp with this article, and they recommend monocles as the preferred client due to good sync with Dino.
  • but yeah, they also say this:
    > But Cheogram is excellent on it’s
    own.
  • * but yeah, they also say this:
    > But Cheogram is excellent on it’s own.
  • singpolyma
    Ah, ok. Monocles is a minor fork of Cheogram Android so you might have better overall success with that. Though usually either should work
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    > Is there a reason you switched to monocles?
    fwiw i never switched i started with monocles.
  • although i must say i much prefer seeing the source in codeberg instead of sourcehut. much more readable for me, but i guess this is personal preference.
  • singpolyma
    There are several people who have the Cheogram Android source in codeberg
  • I never read it in either place, ded
  • * I never read it in either place, heh
  • Caleb
    I like to read code from Emacs.
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    singpolyma: i mean even browsing discussion like issues and PRs i find much easier to do in codeberg, not just source.
  • johnxian
    I've likely asked this same question dozens of times before, but what's the threshold for voicemail delivery? Is it a hard limit or can an odd-numbered user-configured ring-time affect it?
    I have my ring length set to 36 seconds and `cdrs` shows a call totalling 45 (with voicemail).
  • codebus
    _
    Thanks singpolyma
  • ossguy
    _
    johnxian: the threshold for length is 5 seconds
  • johnxian
    Okay. So, if I'm reading the cdrs output right, I should've recieved a 9 second mp3 file, right? Does it only count from where the voice/noise starts?
  • * Okay. So, if I'm reading the cdrs output right, I should've received a 9 second mp3 file, right? Does it only count from where the voice/noise starts?
  • singpolyma
    The cdrs length counts from when the call first hit our carrier. So it can bet longer than anything we see by several seconds
  • * The cdrs length counts from when the call first hit our carrier. So it can be longer than anything we see by several seconds
  • @_bifrost_cjg=2fdiscuss=40conference.soprani.ca:aria-net.org
    _

    This message is being deleted…

  • 12122351846
    _
    Helllo
  • ossguy
    _
    12122351846: hi! did you have a question for us?
  • 12122351846
    _
    How can we help translating to Spanish

  • ossguy
    _
    12122351846: you mean translating Cheogram Android?
  • 12122351846
    _
    If possible
  • singpolyma
    I think there is a spanish translation in git already, so if there's any new strings that need adding feel free to send a patch against the XML file rnd I'll happily apply it
  • me
    Anybody explain the difference in companies tracking a nornal cell phone and using data sim to make calls?
  • ossguy
    _
    with calls over a data SIM (e.g. using JMP), you can't just input a phone number and get the location, you need to do a bit of correlation with the location over time to see who it is
  • me: a "normal cell phone" is easy to track given https://ossguy.com/locationleak (and similar - the carriers got in trouble yet again after this for the same thing)
  • just input phone number, receive real-time location
  • 1689
    _
    ossguy: thank you. What type of people would want to and have resourcrs/skills to make the correlation.
  • 1689
    _
    * ossguy: thank you. What type of people would want to and have resourcrs/skills to make the correlations.
  • ossguy
    _
    1689: definitely three-letter agencies, but probably also some private investigators
  • (in case you're curious, the "carriers doing it again" (i.e. as of last month) is covered in https://krebsonsecurity.com/2024/04/fcc-fines-major-u-s-wireless-carriers-for-selling-customer-location-data/ )
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    i see pixel phones recommended a lot due to grapheneos support, but they all come with esim.
  • do you recommend buying phones without esim to avoid tracking?
  • singpolyma
    With or without eSIM is no different re tracking
  • Gnafu the Great
    _
    SIM doesn't even come into play if someone wants to track you. You need to disable the cell radio.
  • singpolyma
    Tracking has nothing to do with sim or esim
  • 1689
    _
    ossguy: thank you🙏
  • singpolyma
    Veronica: if you don't use it it doesn't do anything
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    yeah i was just worried that the esim could independently ping cell towers without relying on the phone os.
  • you know, kind of how intel me works.
  • Veronica
    _
    can glowies still track it?
  • how to disable esim?
  • ossguy
    _
    right, but that's all built into the cellular radio already
  • singpolyma
    The cell modem will do that with no CPU or os or sim
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    hardware killswitches are always preferable imo.
  • singpolyma
    Yes
  • ossguy
    _
    the radio pings the towers regardless of whether there's a SIM or eSIM in the phone or not
  • agreed re hardware killswitches
  • singpolyma
    If there is power to the radio it will ping the tower
  • Or buy a tablet with no cell radio sure
  • Veronica
    _
    so open up the phone and sever the power cable?
  • ossguy
    _
    if you must, but ideally buy a phone that has a killswitch
  • yup ^
  • no SIM is necessary
  • either (or both) can be used to track you
  • singpolyma
    The baseband has its own id
  • Also note that the eSIM device in a pixel is empty and inert unless you put a profile on it
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    > the radio pings the towers regardless of whether there's a SIM or eSIM in the phone or not
    ah, i wasnt aware of this, i thought a sim was necessary and it would kind of work as an id.
  • ossguy
    _
    right, the SIM has an ID, and the phone's cell radio has its own other ID
  • this is required by law, so you can still call 911 even if you have no SIM
  • (IMSI and IMEI, respectively)
  • singpolyma
    And its own os
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    so ideally i want a phone with hardware separation between wifi and baseband, correct?
  • singpolyma
    Yes
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    and any hotspot hardware recommendation?
  • singpolyma
    Or a removable battery or a faraday bag or whatever
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    > Or a removable battery or a faraday bag or whatever
    those wouldnt work if i want to use the phone with wifi without being tracked by cell towers.
  • singpolyma
    I haven't used a hotspot myself, but they do seem cool
  • It's like a poor man's hardware switch
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    > and any hotspot hardware recommendation?
    apart from the your sim card that works as esim?
  • ossguy
    _
    how does a cellular hotspot help?
  • singpolyma
    Right. So I see the logic in a hotspot. Then use a modemless tablet and only enable hotspot power when you really need it
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    > how does a cellular hotspot help?
    if i get to a place where i have wifi, aka home or work, i just turn the hotspot off and remove the sim card.
  • singpolyma
    No reason to remove the sim card, but yes
  • ossguy
    _
    yeah, I mean it's better to have a killswitch, but if your phone doesn't give that to you for some reason, I guess you've got to use a hotspot
  • singpolyma
    Better battery life with a hotspot too
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    > No reason to remove the sim card, but yes
    many times i've been betrayed by thinking i was powering off devices when in realirt i wasnt.
  • singpolyma
    Ooh
  • True, but if the power is on removing the sim won't help
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    so the Pixel Tablet has no IMEI whatsoever?
  • singpolyma
    So need to be sure it's off and/or faraday bag
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    yes. good catch.
  • good point.. grr
  • singpolyma
    Most tablets have no cell radio. Some do. I don't know about that one specifically
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    no ability to call 911? no baseband antenna?
  • > No reason to remove the sim card, but yes
    many times i've been betrayed by thinking i was powering off devices when in reality i wasnt.
  • Mike
    Power off + faraday bag
  • > Right. So I see the logic in a hotspot. Then use a modemless tablet and only enable hotspot power when you really need it
    On this topic, tangorpro (Pixel Tablet) just got DivestOS support a week or two ago. Tempted to try out
  • Yeah tangorpro has no cell modem
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    gotta start carrying a backpack for the extra inventory slots.
  • singpolyma
    Its time for... BIGGER POCKETS
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    no to find something like that that fits inside my pocket 😅
  • singpolyma
    Or a shoulder bag. Protect your privacy and doubles as a self defense weapon
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    good point
  • Mike
    Depending on your threat model a device running DivestOS or GOS and airplane mode is likely good enough. There's reportedly a brief moment at boot where the modem will activate even when airplane mode is enabled (really it's before the airplane mode preference is loaded), but otherwise it should do the job
  • singpolyma
    Agreed
  • Mike
    You could boot it up while in a faraday bag if you really wanted to
  • Veronica
    _
    > You could boot it up while in a faraday bag if you really wanted to
    how? you would need to have it in your hand outside of the bag to do that
  • Mike
    Haha yeah pretty much only on updates for me
  • >> You could boot it up while in a faraday bag if you really wanted to
    > how? you would need to have it in your hand outside of the bag to do that
    Press the button from outside the bag
  • >> You could boot it up while in a faraday bag if you really wanted to
    > how? you would need to have it in your hand outside of the bag to do that
    Press the button through the bag
  • singpolyma
    Phones boot up? Are you turning it off or something? 😉
  • Mike
    Or really if you hit power on and immediately put it in the bag it would have the same effect probably
  • LMAO yeah was just gonna say or go into your lead lined bunker every time you boot up
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    i think it's just a nice way to upgrade from sim slot to esim slot, no?
  • so uh, im thinking if the esim card that you guys sell provides any sort of advantage over a normal esim slot.
  • singpolyma
    New plan. Live in a nuclear missile silo
  • parkaunsafe: you can transfer it between devices. Including devices that don't support esim
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    cant multiple normal esims be loaded with the same number at the same time?
  • singpolyma
    I'm not sure what you mean by same number
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    > I'm not sure what you mean by same number
    can i use the same data plan over multiple esim devices?
  • singpolyma
    Transferability is the main one. So possibly ni
  • Transferability is the main one. So possibly no
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    (without the esim card you guys sell)
  • as in, if all my current and future devices have esim, is there any benefit to getting the esim card?
  • singpolyma
    No, one data plan with an esim would be tied to just the devece you put the eSIM profilebon
  • If you wanted to use it in a second device for a bit there's no way to do that
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    yeah, i'm sold on it then.
  • singpolyma
    It's basically all the best features of both sim and eSIM together
  • Yes
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    oh, so thats an advantage for the card. i could use the same data plan on different devices, although not at the same time.
  • yeah i assumed i could swap my data plan between devices with esim whenever i wanted.
  • * yeah i assumed i could swap my data plan between devices with esim whenever i wanted. (without your card)
  • singpolyma
    Many free android os also cannot write eSIM profiles yet. Or require nonfree Google code to do it. But if you run DivestOS that's not an issue
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    > as in, if all my current and future devices have esim, is there any benefit to getting the esim card?
    esim slots* i meant. now i understand why you said no.
  • singpolyma
    One other possible benefit isbif your device has one eSIM slot and one physical sim slot our card could turn that to dual eSIM slots
  • Which some people might find useful
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    this is probably a big ask, but have you considered open sourcing the esim card schematics so it could possibly be made locally for us away from the americas?
  • i'm assuming it could be done in a simple pcb shop but maybe special tooling is required.
  • singpolyma
    Unfortunately we don't own the schematics and honestly siurcing the euicc chips is hard outside of China. But open sourcing more stuff is something we may talk to the supplier about if we can push enough volume
  • Unfortunately we don't own the schematics and honestly sourcing the euicc chips is hard outside of China. But open sourcing more stuff is something we may talk to the supplier about if we can push enough volume
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    one day 🤞
  • cool, appreciate the info.
  • singpolyma
    Having all the userspace side free is already a huge step up from what existed before
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    https://share.conversations.im/parkaunsafe/kYd6SM5fYEfYrKKX/zb2rhZRHir2dFMYH8pNyttot9RYrAM6xRfZa59N8ykpHV773V.jpg
  • who needs a hotspot when you can just get a router and attach a power bank to it. 😆
  • would be hard to find a faraday bag large enough for it though
  • Mike
    Well with that you can just unplug it easily, no need for a faraday bag
  • TheOtherMike
    _
    > https://share.conversations.im/parkaunsafe/kYd6SM5fYEfYrKKX/zb2rhZRHir2dFMYH8pNyttot9RYrAM6xRfZa59N8ykpHV773V.jpg
    I wish I could find boards like that with a reasonably fast x86 processor. I'm looking for a decent board to use as a home router, but I rely on Linux's `tc` to keep my network healthy under load.
  • ossguy
    _
    TheOtherMike: why do you need x86? it seems recent ARM CPUs should be able to handle routing rules/filters on gigabit links, unless you have super super complex (and/or application-level) filters
  • jackhill
    TheOtherMike, curious what you would consider resonably fast? And why x86? I think pcengines have a good reputation for amd64 boards marketed at routing
  • TheOtherMike
    _
    > TheOtherMike: why do you need x86? it seems recent ARM CPUs should be able to handle routing rules/filters on gigabit links, unless you have super super complex (and/or application-level) filters
    I have super complex filters :)
    I'm doing things like restoring DSCP on incoming packets (based on the last seen outgoing DSCP), 8-way diffserv, and some VPN for devices that can't handle their own VPN. And my ISP provides a 1Gb down/1Gb up connection.
  • > TheOtherMike, curious what you would consider resonably fast? And why x86? I think pcengines have a good reputation for amd64 boards marketed at routing
    Low TDP Xeons have done the job in the past. I haven't tried any serious arm64 chips, yet, but I keep hearing good things. I don't yet know where to look for purchasing or have a mental model for their performance yet, though.
  • parkaunsafe
    _
    https://wiki.banana-pi.org/Banana_Pi_BPI-R4 this is the board i shared, if you wanna take a look, not sure if it fits your needs but i think it's one of the best arm64 routers around
  • https://forum.openwrt.org/t/a-new-dual-10g-router-based-on-filogic-880-banana-pi-bpi-r4/163861
    openwrt forum thread
  • TheOtherMike
    _
    parkaunsafe: Thank you! I'll take a look.
  • rogueren
    Is anyone using the Snikket app ever heard of an issue where you need to put in your username every few hours? I got a single people to FINALLY use XMPP only for them to uninstall it because of this
  • ossguy
    _
    on Android or iOS?
  • rogueren
    android
  • ossguy
    _
    I've never heard of that
  • I'd be interested to see screenshots or similar
  • rogueren
    They already uninstalled the app.
  • ossguy
    _
    do you mean it forgot their account and they needed to re-add the account (including password) periodically?
  • or is it something related to the room(s) they were joined to?
  • rogueren
    I don't know. All I know is that it was asking for their username every couple of hours.
  • They were only joined in a single room and they were in my circles on my server.
  • ossguy
    _
    without screenshots or some other more detailed description of exactly what was going on (what they were doing at the time, exactly how often it was, etc.), it's really hard to say what might have been happening or how to fix it
  • (esp. since I don't think we've ever heard of this before)
  • rogueren
    Unfortunately, all I can go off is what they said.
  • singpolyma
    The app has no ability to ask for a username in that way. Maybe was asking for nickname in the chatroom specifically?
  • rogueren
    They specifically did say username not password though.
  • > The app has no ability to ask for a username in that way. Maybe was asking for nickname in the chatroom specifically?
  • > The app has no ability to ask for a username in that way. Maybe was asking for nickname in the chatroom specifically? That sounded more likely.
  • * > The app has no ability to ask for a username in that way. Maybe was asking for nickname in the chatroom specifically?

    That sounded more likely.
  • * > The app has no ability to ask for a username in that way. Maybe was asking for nickname in the chatroom specifically?

    That sounds more likely.
  • fran
    _
    What is the name of the default phone dialer app? I switched over to Welfon, and now don't like it. Wanna switch back.
  • ossguy
    _
    fran: I think it's often called Phone, but I don't use a smartphone so others here would know better :)
  • fran
    _
    Phone app is found only in the aurora store, which says it is a google app requiring GSF. Google Services Framework to run. It also installs 1 tracker. Is that REALLY what shipped default w the above phone? Hard 2 believe.
  • ossguy
    _
    fran‎: you should definitely ask Above then
  • since they shipped you the OS, so they should know
  • fran
    _
    K, tks
  • Sokian
    _
    Wouldn't the Above phone be just GOS and be using the AOSP dialer app , I have this option
    > version 23.0
    >
    > com.android.dialer
    > versionCode 2900000
    >
    > targetSdk 30
    > minSdk 34
  • lina
    > singpolyma:
    > Is there a reason you switched to monocles?
    a bit late to reply to this, but I just tried monocles and think i'm gonna switch just bc the ui feels a bit more polished and it has some nice little things that i've gotten used to in other mobile texting apps like emoji reacts, sticker/gif drawer, etc.
  • Blender
    _
    https://files.dismail.de/data/91dfdda22de0d87c682947ab4a3bceac21dca9d2/P9qXouccsfH7itF8oRrvN5PQhl1QKOEatzpEm8ZK/20240516_183332.jpg
  • singpolyma
    lina: pretty sure they got their reaction and sticker support from us 🙂 but I'm happy for you to use their app if it's useful to you
  • lina
    hmm, i didn't see those in cheogram. maybe I missed a setting or something
  • acapella
    _
    Hi - I have been having trouble with phone calls lately. If someone calls me and I pick up, I stay on the "Connecting..." screen and the call does not initiate. When I call others, a similar thing happens where the phone continues to ring forever. Are there some troubleshooting tips for issues like this? Permissions given to Cheogram: Microphone, Network, Notifications, Sensors
  • singpolyma
    acapella: so calls in or out you get stuck at the "connecting..." screen? do you have a vpn/
  • * acapella: so calls in or out you get stuck at the "connecting..." screen? do you have a vpn?
  • acapella
    _
    I do use a VPN
  • And yes calls are stuck at that screen, sometimes it ends with a "Could not connect call" screen
  • But I have always used a VPN with Cheogram
  • These issues only started occurring about 1-2 wks ago
  • singpolyma
    it may be the vpn provider has changed something which is causing an issue. it's worth trying a call without it to see if the issue goes away?
  • * it may be the vpn provider has changed something which is causing an issue. it's worth trying a call without it to see if the issue goes away
  • acapella
    _
    Hmm maybe I will play around with settings. I use ProtonVPN by the way
  • singpolyma
    you can look at the call debug logs to see what they say as to the reason for the connection failure. Ideally ICE should be able to get through almost anything, but sometimes if UDP is very badly treated for example it cannot
  • acapella
    _
    Oh wow! All I did was change the Protocol from Smart (auto) to Wireguard and my calls work again!
  • Interesting, I wonder which protocol was being auto selected
  • Thanks for the tip!...
  • For future reference how do I access call debug logs, is that within the app or do I need to connect to computer and run adb logcat
  • singpolyma
    Downloads/Cheogram/calls
  • acapella
    _
    Ahhhh cool I didnt realize logs were being automatically written. Thanks!
  • Hm... It's just a bunch of binaries named after phone numbers I have called, any tips on how to open? I can try transferring to computer and using a text editor but all I am expecting is gibberish because it's binary
  • ossguy
    _
    acapella‎: transfer to a computer - they should open there
  • singpolyma
    acapella: it's not binary
  • Gnafu the Great
    _
    I use Ghost Commander's built-in text viewer or Editor for things like that on Android.
  • acapella
    _
    Ah yes I was wrong, my file manager in Android was displaying the files as BIN but when I downloaded them they were indeed .log files
  • Looking at one of the calls I failed to receive, I see "java.lang.SecurityException: This PhoneAccountHandle is not enabled for this user!"
  • Felixdragon
    _
    Salve, volevo sapere come registrarmi correttamente su sopranica e come ottenere una chat sicura e non intercettabile. Volwvo sapere anche se le chiamate e messaggi sono intercettabili dalle autorita'. Grazie
  • singpolyma
    acapella: that error is fine it should only prevent the call from ringing in dialler integration
  • acapella
    _
    I also see "received session terminate reason=gone() while in state SESSION_ACCEPTED" and "transitioned into TERMINATED_CONNECTIVITY_ERROR"
  • Indeed this must have to do with some weird interaction between ProtonVPN's smart routing and Cheogram
  • singpolyma
    What kind of candidates does it say it chose?
  • Usually with us I expect one host and one prflx as selected
  • nick
    _
    Is there any possibility of implementing xep-0444 support in Cheogram in the near term future?
  • singpolyma
    Which one is that?
  • nick
    _
    The message reactions one.
  • singpolyma
    I don't know all the numbers, hed
  • nick
    _
    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0444.html
  • singpolyma
    Yes, we have reactions support already for quite some time
  • nick
    _
    Stupid question, how do I use that? I'm on the latest cheogram from the specific cheogram fdroid repo.
  • singpolyma
    Swipe to reply then type : to insert an emoji or sticker. If it is the only thing in the reply a reaction will be sent
  • nick
    _
    > Swipe to reply then type : to insert an emoji or sticker. If it is the only thing in the reply a reaction will be sent
    ❤️
  • Thanks!
  • acapella
    _
    > What kind of candidates does it say it chose?
    05-12 15 D cheogram: received candidate: audio:0:candidate:A 1 udp C 51.x.x.x 18312 typ host generation 0 ufrag E::UNKNOWN
    05-12 15 D cheogram: received candidate: audio:0:candidate:B 1 udp C 167.x.x.x 18312 typ host generation 0 ufrag E::UNKNOWN
    05-12 15 D cheogram: received candidate: audio:0:candidate:A 2 udp D 51.x.x.x 18313 typ host generation 0 ufrag E::UNKNOWN
    05-12 15 D cheogram: received candidate: audio:0:candidate:B 2 udp D 167.x.x.x 18313 typ host generation 0 ufrag E::UNKNOWN
  • Those are the 4 log lines I see which involve candidates. I redacted some of the IDs / part of the IPs as this is a public channel lol
  • singpolyma
    No candidates sent?
  • acapella
    _
    Sorry I am unsure what a candidate is or how to tell if one was sent
  • singpolyma
    Would be a line like that but say sent not receive
  • acapella
    _
    Grepping for candidate, all log lines say received, none say sent
  • singpolyma
    That seems related to the problem then. Maybe the code collecting candidates got stuck or something with that VPN mode
  • acapella
    _
    Are candidates essentially potential servers which could be selected to mediate the VOIP connection?
  • singpolyma
    Yes
  • acapella
    _
    Anyway hope this was helpful, let me know if you need anything else! I might not be the only ProtonVPN user you have
  • ossguy
    _
    (or options to directly contact the endpoint, bypassing any intermediate servers)
  • acapella‎: the issue is on the ProtonVPN side, so best to ask them
  • singpolyma
    I have an idea for a workaround
  • ossguy
    _
    or wait for that I suppose :)
  • singpolyma
    ossguy: i think it's more likely to be a vpn app or is bug but not sure
  • * ossguy: i think it's more likely to be a vpn app or os bug but not sure
  • ossguy
    _
    ah
  • singpolyma
    Since it never even gets the lan ip candidate
  • sudoku23
    _
    How do I make a call in cheogram?
  • nick
    _
    > Swipe to reply then type : to insert an emoji or sticker. If it is the only thing in the reply a reaction will be sent
    Sorry for continuting on this, but is there a plan to support displaying reactions in cheogram in the future?
  • ossguy
    _
    sudoku23‎: tap the Call/phone icon in the conversation of the contact you want to call
  • (there are a couple other ways, but that one is the easiest)
  • sudoku23
    _
    Start from step 0 please
  • ossguy
    _
    sudoku23‎: have you communicated with anyone through Cheogram Android yet?
  • sudoku23
    _
    I did but forgot how. Ui disaster here.
  • ossguy
    _
    sudoku23‎: tap the Add Contact button (person with '+' IIRC) and then tap the phone icon/PSTN button there
  • then enter the phone number of the person you wish to contact in the phone number/Jabber ID box
  • then tap the Call button
  • sudoku23
    _
    There is no phone icon after pressing the plus
  • singpolyma
    nick: we do display them. You mean for aggregating them rnd displaying on the parent message with counts? I expect we'll build a ui something like that eventually
  • nick
    _
    That is what I meant. Thanks for the info!
  • ossguy
    _
    sudoku23‎: ok, then just add the phone contact manually - -in particular, enter this Jabber ID: +1[phone_number]@cheogram.com
  • replacing the [phone_Number] part with the 10-digit number you want to call
  • (no spaces or punctuation)
  • then "Add"
  • a conversation should open, and then you can tap the Call/phone button at the top
  • sudoku23
    _
    Manually adding worked but this doesn't seem like the intended workflow
  • ossguy
    _
    sudoku23‎: it's not, but I wanted to make sure this worked first
  • since it appears there is a part of your setup that isn't expected, and it takes a bit of extra work to get that fixed
  • sudoku23
    _
    I don't recall changing any settings that I would expect to impact it
  • singpolyma
    Tap this https://matrix.to/#/@_bifrost_cheogram.com:aria-net.org then tap the top bar make sure it is added and both bixes checked and showing as online
  • ossguy
    _
    sudoku23‎: yeah, it's hard to say what happened - you need to add the contact with Jabber ID "cheogram.com" to enable the gateway features that cause the UI to more easily make phone calls
  • sudoku23
    _
    Tap where on the top bar? Make sure what is added? What boxes?
  • singpolyma
    Tap anywhere on the top bar after you tap that link and it will open the contact details
  • arrakis
    _
    I assume when forwarding calls to another number, it utilizes the prepaid minutes, yes?

    Can SMS be forwarded?

    Looking to drop Google Voice.
  • singpolyma
    Yes, and no sms cannot be forwarded
  • ossguy
    _
    just like Google Voic3e
  • *Google Voice
  • they dropped SMS forwarding a year or two ago
  • singpolyma
    It's really impractical to do it with the current industry landscape
  • arrakis
    _
    ossguy, I had forgotten that.
  • singpolyma, noted. Telco is such a mess. I appreciate the response.
  • Really love the mission of Soprani.ca and JMP.chat.

    I'll be trialing a couple flip phones on a prepaid network. I don't really need SMS to the prepaid as I'll tell my friends and family to call if they need something.

    Love that I can call and SMS via XMPP! Thanks to all for making this possible.
  • r05
    _
    > Really love the mission of Soprani.ca and JMP.chat.
    >
    > I'll be trialing a couple flip phones on a prepaid network. I don't really need SMS to the prepaid as I'll tell my friends and family to call if they need something.
    >
    > Love that I can call and SMS via XMPP! Thanks to all for making this possible.
    I'm curious, which flip phones are you looking to use? I was lurking here intending to ask about something similar after I did a little due dilligence

  • arrakis
    _
    r05, I've ordered the CAT S22 and the Nokia 2780.
  • CAT S22 runs Android 11 and has the Google Play store. Appealing in some ways, but the point is to buy back my time and attention.
  • Nokia 2780 runs KaiOS which has an app store, but obviously the selection is limited.
  • qy

  • singpolyma: that's been annoying me a while
  • singpolyma
    qy: its not clear to me what this changes. It catches all http clicks and sends them to browser? Is that not what it does now?
  • qy
    singpolyma: no, custom tabs
  • removes the whole activity switch
  • keeps your browsers clean
  • singpolyma
    I'll have to try it out
  • qy
    yeah
  • sudoku23
    _
    > Tap this https://matrix.to/#/@_bifrost_cheogram.com:aria-net.org then tap the top bar make sure it is added and both bixes checked and showing as online
    Both boxes are checked and it shows as online
  • singpolyma
    Cachedonly is usually set when called from UI thread
  • qy
    singpolyma: setting loadAvatar's avatarservice call to not be cachedonly has cured avatar flickering, and maybe even made my avatars stop vanishing (still waiting to see if it still happens), but at what cost?
  • qy
    right, so its just subbing out the flicker for ui stalling
  • ossguy
    _
    sudoku23: now you should be able to use the steps I provided earlier
  • (Add Contact screen, then tap the PSTN/phone icon, and enter the phone number in the textbox and tap Call)
  • sudoku23
    _
    > (Add Contact screen, then tap the PSTN/phone icon, and enter the phone number in the textbox and tap Call)
    I see the phone icon now but I don't know why this changed.
  • Both boxes were already checked and I didn't change anything
  • qy
    > right, so its just subbing out the flicker for ui stalling
    yeah nvm, still happens
  • qy
    reckon theres a better way to investigate this? im out of ideas
  • riotshoe
    R
    This reply could not be found.
    Just wanted to say I tried the pre-release build and it has fixed my Bluetooth/car calling issues. Thanks!
  • Tim
    > I'm going into landing mode for this pre-release, I think all the major issues have been fixed but if anyone has reported something they think I've missed please do let me know
    WebXDC apps that rely on swiping still don't work in Cheogram. Also a couple of other issues (related to each other) that I reported to you privately. But I don't know if you intended to fix those in the next release.
  • ossguy
    _
    Tim: has it gotten any better? (or worse?) or just the same as it has always been?
  • Tim
    > Tim: has it gotten any better? (or worse?) or just the same as it has always been?
    The same as it was. Swipes that begin horizontally are interpreted as tab-switching gestures by Cheogram instead of being sent to the WebXDC app, but some WebXDC apps rely on horizontal swipes.
  • nick
    _
    Wait, cheogram supports webxdc, like from Delta chat? Awesome!
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